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Post by sg3526 on Jul 11, 2012 6:43:36 GMT -5
OK it seems that we have upset some folks on the track layout thread because somehow we all got on the topic of trannys instead of the original topic, so we will use this thread to discuss transmission issues. I have been building them for some 36 years so ask away and I will answer the questions to the best of my ability.
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 11, 2012 6:57:01 GMT -5
Smalltime, here is the answer to the question that you asked on the track layout thread. To put it simply as I can without getting into all the technical stuff is that a Glide has far fewer parts in it and therefore has less mass to move. A 400 has 2 sets of planetaries, 3 sets of clutches and 2 bands. A Glide has 2 sets of clutches and one set of Planetaries and one band. It's simple weight to power and mass, it takes less power to turn the internals of a Glide than it does a 400 Turbo. A 400 Turbo will give you a better 60' than a Glide because it has a lower first gear ratio. Generally as a rule you can expect to pick up an average of 3 tenths when switching to a Glide, of course you also have to remember that they haven't built Glides since the early 70's and most of the stuff out there is older than dirt and worn out. The good thing is that you can buy almost everything for a Glide aftermarket and better than stock such as cases and input shafts, clutch drums, bands, planetaries and Valve bodies and naturally the more power you make the better parts you want to put in your Glide.
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Post by hemiman4262003 on Jul 11, 2012 8:41:19 GMT -5
we got board because not much was going on and trannys came up
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RimDog
Junior Member
"Just A Little Duece Coupe"
Posts: 60
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Post by RimDog on Jul 12, 2012 1:30:33 GMT -5
Glides are typically used with a "light" car, or "big cubes", or . . ."both". A friend of mine has a 2nd Gen Camaro with a 406 sbc, weighing in around 3600(ass n gas). He was using a 350 Turbo, with 4.56 gears. He installed a glide, with the same stall, and ran -.3 than he did with his 350. . .. (I told him, but he had to try it) . . . . . .<grin> He only made one TnT at the track, and "out it came". . .. !!
Incidently, a glide requires 12 hp to pull the pump. A TH350, 24hp, and a TH400 around 40 hp. FYI . . .
This info is from a friend who does a lot of engine building, and dyno time. FYI !!!
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 12, 2012 6:53:25 GMT -5
Yeah the weight break for a glide is around 3000#s. If you get much heavier than that and don't have the HP to work the car your gonna lose. And FYI it's not the pump that takes HP to turn, they are all the exact same gear pumps that have been used since Hydra Matic began building trannys. What takes more HP to turn one over the other is the internal components of the trans. I have put the parts together as they go in the trans for customers and showed them what they have to try to turn inside their trans as compared to a glide not to mention the weight factor between the two. I stack everything together and have them try to pick them up and they look at me and go your kidding. The recipricating mass of a 350 or a 400 is far greater than a Glide.
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Post by hemiman4262003 on Jul 12, 2012 11:26:06 GMT -5
while were on trannys,hows about oils like synthincs tranny fluid
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 12, 2012 11:42:51 GMT -5
In manuals or Automatics? In Manuals I like them in automatics not so much and here's the reason. With a manual a synthetic fluid is far and away a much better product, they seem to coat the surfaces better and stay on them. In automatics it's just the opposite effect they seem to slip a little bit and have seen them actually cause some variance in reaction times. It's the same reason that I won't use Kevlar bands or clutches in any of my trannies. They slip and spin until they cause a little bit of friction and then they grab. I generally use a good Dexron/mercon oil and stay away from the cost and issues of synthetics. Yeah I know oil is supposed to be slippery but I think in the case of a race trans synthetics are too slippery.
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Post by hemiman4262003 on Jul 12, 2012 12:05:12 GMT -5
automatics
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Post by hemiman4262003 on Jul 12, 2012 12:06:24 GMT -5
sg what bands do you use
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Post by eticket on Jul 12, 2012 14:13:58 GMT -5
I run a TS 5000 glide with straight cut gears and full synthetic with heat sink and a cooler with a fan set for 160. I have no hard facts other than heating ( very seldom does the temp. go above 160 unless my son stays trans brake to long ) and wear seem to be at a minimum with no noticeable slippage. With the final drive at top end and my Coan converter and if my calculations are correct I have about 3% slippage. I also use a light weight high impact synthetic in my rear end. Just what works for us.
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 12, 2012 15:19:39 GMT -5
Alto reds. Like I said I do a lot of Pro tree stuff and you want the car to move as soon as you let go of the button or the box lets go of the brake. I used to use all Kevlar stuff for my bands but when I went to the red alto bands I picked up almost .020 in reaction time. The clutches in my Roadster have been in various trans since 1992 and I were to guess how many passes they had on them I would have to guess well over 3000. They are the Raybestos Blue Plates. I take them out every few years put a dial indicator on them and put them back in. I have tried almost every type of fluid and additives known to man and the best I can tell you to do is just put regular fluid in it and let it fly. |
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 12, 2012 15:23:39 GMT -5
I run a TS 5000 glide with straight cut gears and full synthetic with heat sink and a cooler with a fan set for 160. I have no hard facts other than heating ( very seldom does the temp. go above 160 unless my son stays trans brake to long ) and wear seem to be at a minimum with no noticeable slippage. With the final drive at top end and my Coan converter and if my calculations are correct I have about 3% slippage. I also use a light weight high impact synthetic in my rear end. Just what works for us. Yep I run straight cuts in my Dragster with a 1.80 gear set and alloy carrier. I also have a 10 clutch high gear drum in the car too. I use a standard cooler and unless you are in late in rounds and no time to do any type of cool down I have no issue with heat whatsoever. But I think that issue is the same for anyone. |
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Post by blackandblueracing on Jul 12, 2012 20:50:58 GMT -5
I put a 9 inch in my Camaro and since you were talking about sythetics fluids, what weight gear oil is best? I was told heavier for racing by one person: 140/90, and lighter weight from someone else, 90/70. I was planning on using Mobile 1 gear oil and I'll probly be at MAR Park often with it.
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Post by sg3526 on Jul 12, 2012 22:00:56 GMT -5
I do use synthetic gear lube in my rear end, like i said before it "clings" to the gears. 80W-90. One of the big advantages to using a synthetic gear lube is it stays consistent in all weather conditions and I do virtually no warm up at all. I get the engine up to temp and flash the converter a few times to build heat in it. Turn the car off and let it heat soak top the fuel off and we're ready. Again I'm gonna go back to the Pro Tree stuff, if any of you have ever ran an NHRA type event you know that there is always lots of sitting around time. Sometimes you don't have time to do a normal routine and you gotta go when they call you. That's why I do it this way. I love to sit under the tower and flash the converter to build heat in the converter before I go into the water it echos around under there so nicely... LMAO
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Post by hemiman4262003 on Jul 13, 2012 8:54:08 GMT -5
sg3526,i need you to build me a trans sometime,you know about 727s
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Bujang Lah Kau kagak ada btol
